Communicator's Guidance to Career Progression and Advancement

Embark on an illuminating voyage into the heart of public relations with Nathan Miller, a maestro of communication whose career spans from journalism in Los Angeles to the United Nations. Host Peter Woolfolk chats with Nathan as he maps out his dynamic path, revealing how key decisions and developed skills propelled him from crafting the LA Dodgers' first Facebook page to shaping global narratives. As you listen, you'll gather pearls of wisdom on adaptability and the finesse needed to navigate high-stakes political arenas, making this conversation a goldmine for aspiring and seasoned professionals alike.

Feel the pulse of the political communication world as we dissect the meticulous process behind crafting influential speeches and managing crisis communications. Nathan's recount of the relentless revisions for a UN speech and the backstage choreography with the Secret Service during a presidential campaign underscores the relentless detail-oriented nature of our field. This episode peels back the curtain on the intense preparation and strategic thought that go into every public statement, leaving you with a deeper appreciation for the art of impactful messaging and the collaborative spirit that drives success.

As we wrap up our enriching session, a heartfelt thank-you to Nathan Miller for his generous insights is in order. Those tuning in, both seasoned PR veterans and fresh-faced communicators, will find the shared strategies and tips to be nuggets of practical wisdom. We trust this episode leaves you inspired to enhance your public speaking prowess and to strike that delicate balance between established communication methods and emerging digital platforms. Share these insights, and join us again on the Public Relations Review Podcast, where the exchange of ideas continues to spark professional growth.

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Chapters

• 1:10 Journey to Success in Public Relations
• 8:30 Lessons Learned From Professional Challenges
• 15:35 Career Lessons and Skills Advancement
• 26:05 Developing Public Speaking Skills for Success
• 29:32 Public Relations Review Podcast Acknowledgements

Transcript

Announcer: 1:11

Welcome. This is the Public Relations Review Podcast, a program to discuss the many facets of public relations with seasoned professionals, educators, authors and others. Now here is your host, Peter Woolfolk.

Peter Woolfolk: 1:31

Welcome to the Public Relations Review Podcast and to our listeners all across America and around the world. Now this podcast has been ranked by Apple as one of the top 1% of podcasts worldwide, so I'd like to say thank you to all of my guests and listeners for being the basis for this accomplishment. Now question what are the lessons and skills learned on the path from being a contributor to a Los Angeles newspaper to being director of speech writing for Israel's permanent mission to the United Nations, or also being senior communications director and speech writer for an Israeli ambassador? Add to that he was a policy director at the Homeland Security Advisory Council and a Goldman Fellow at the Transatlantic Institute in Belgium.

Peter Woolfolk: 2:18

My guest today is Nathan Miller, founder of Miller Inc, that's with an I-N-K, a public relations firm located in Los Angeles, California. He is now a communications strategist sought out by executives at the highest levels of business, government, and the nonprofit world, and helping hundreds of organizations to tell their stories better and to navigate complex issues and crises globally. Nathan has been recognized by an Israeli newspaper as one of the 10 young Jews who will change the and is one of Southern California's 40 Most Inspiring Entrepreneurs Under 40, and he has both his MA and Master's from UCLA. So, Nathan, welcome to the podcast.

Nathan Miller: 3:05

Thank you so much for that kind introduction. It's really great to be here.

Peter Woolfolk: 3:09

Look, you have had some great experiences and I think it might be wise if we could have you sort of go over what some of those experiences were and what you've learned along the way, because, like myself, we've done a lot of things and we've learned a lot and it has helped us tremendously in our careers. So why don't you just pick it up where you want to start and where you want to start, what you were doing and the experiences that you've had?

Nathan Miller: 3:36

Absolutely Well. Thank you again for having me. I've had a varied career. For the last 11 years I've been running my own strategic communications firm, headquartered in LA, as you said. With you know, we have team New York and San Francisco as well, and building and growing and nurturing that firm to the size it is today has definitely been the big project of my career, I would say. But prior to that I had a lot of experiences that certainly informed the way I think about this work, certainly contributed to the way that I you know the skills that I've learned, and so I can talk a little bit about that.

Nathan Miller: 4:07

So you know, I was in getting my undergraduate and the master's in public policy in the years right after 9-11, when national security and foreign policy were big in the culture and were fascinating to me, I thought I would go into US government and I got my master's in public policy at UCLA. I did that. I spent some time in Brussels working with the EU institutions and I thought when I graduated, got my master's, I would go into either some sort of national security field or work in Washington. But one thing led to another and I got a job helping to be the policy director at a think tank called the Homeland Security Advisory Council, and then I spent two years working in a local public affairs firm here in Los Angeles, where I learned a lot, and in 2010, I had this, you know from some people who I had met during my time in Brussels there was this job listing that came out to be the chief speechwriter for Israel's mission to the United Nations.

Nathan Miller: 5:05

Now I thought there was no way I was going to get that job. I was sure of it and I said there's no way. I was 25 at the time that I'm qualified to do it. But I thought, you know what? There's no harm in sending in my resume. So I published some columns, as you mentioned, and I sent in some of my writing and there was a few hundred people who applied to that job, I know, and for whatever reason, the ambassador at the time liked the stuff that I'd written and said I want this guy to interview with us. So I found myself in New York and interviewed. It was a big cattle call interview. They had a lot of people interview and all of a sudden they'd offered me the job and that really was a big pivot point in my career. I was the only American working on the staff there, the only native English speaker, and I had a lot of volume. So I was the only speechwriter for the entire mission to the United Nations, and so it was about 20, 30 speeches a week sometimes.

Nathan Miller: 5:54

You had to learn to be quick. You had to learn to sort of focus and not get tired and not get fatigued. And I was there for three years during a really interesting, pivotal time in the development of the Middle East. I was there for the outbreak of the Arab Spring, for the Palestinian UN statehood bid, through two wars in which Israel was involved in through Iran sanctions, and that you know. There's a lot of experiences I could talk about, but I learned so much from that experience and in 2013, when I was, we can go back and you know I can share some stories from my time with the UN In 2013, after I'd done that for three years on a very small salary in New York City, I basically ran out of money and I said I got to do something.

Nathan Miller: 6:38

I thought at the time that there was an opportunity to open a new kind of firm. You know when I was I'll just go back In 2008,. I was when I was at the public affairs firm. One of our clients was the Dodgers the LA Dodgers, the baseball team and I remember I was a freshman in college when Facebook came out and I remember setting up the Dodgers' first Facebook page and sitting in the conference room with the executives at the LA Dodgers and them saying what is this crazy thing called Facebook? It's totally irrelevant to our business? And I said you know, I think you guys might be wrong about that. And so we set up this thing and they were sort of laughing. We said it's playful, but I saw how.

Nathan Miller: 7:17

When I was at the UN as well, I saw how the media environment was really changing. What's funny? Susan Rice, who was the US ambassador at the time, famously said when asked if she was going to be on Twitter when she took the job, she said I don't do diplomacy by haiku, which was pretty funny. But you know, within a year she was on Twitter and pretty popular on there and she started engaging in that way.

Nathan Miller: 7:39

And I set up the first social media account for the Israeli government at the UN and that became a big part of our communication strategy and I just saw how media was changing and I felt like there was something that I could contribute with a new firm and that's what we've built with Miller Inc. Our motto is PR is dead, meaning the traditional way that people think about things often is no longer relevant and you have to have strategic understanding of who you're trying to reach, what are you trying to achieve, what's the message you want to deliver? But also tactical sophistication to navigate all the different tools and techniques that have emerged, and obviously the environment's changed tremendously since I opened the firm 11 years ago. But I felt, like you know, I could do something different and thankfully, you know I found some. We've gotten a lot of clients that agree, so that's been great.

Peter Woolfolk: 8:29

You know, one of the important things I heard you say because I felt the same way. Some years ago I got a call from a friend. He said look, there's a member of Congress who's looking for a press secretary and at the time Washington DC is my hometown, so I live there and he said he's looking for a press secretary. I said, well, you know, I don't really know anything about Congress. He said, well, you know something about PR, don't you? I said sure. He said, well, you know something about PR, don't you? I said sure. He said, well, at least just go up there and give it a shot.

Peter Woolfolk: 8:55

So I did and, you know, talked to the first person that was interviewing me and did everything I thought I could do. But then I realized, because I had worked at the National Education Association, I called some friends of mine down there. It happened that the guy I did not know it at the time, but the guy was chairman of the House Education Labor Committee. I said, well, do you know anybody in this congressman's office? And they said, oh, I know she could see her staff. They set me up with an interview up there, went up there, talk with them, background, blah, blah, blah, blah. Next, thing, I know I had a job and within one.

Nathan Miller: 9:26

So isn't that how life is? You know, I always say when I try to teach, my team is I. You have the right to be at every table. You've got to see yourself in that way. But you also have to have the humility it doesn't matter how big you get to be able to continue to listen and never think you're too good for any table. It's both things, you know, and I think that the people who succeed in life are the ones who are willing to go and take that shot, even when it's a little bit uncomfortable or it feels a little outside of what would be perceived as the correct thing. I totally agree. That's how I got that break, which was probably the biggest break I've had professionally.

Peter Woolfolk: 10:03

And you know what it turned out to be. I did find out that the PR side of it wasn't that difficult. What I had to learn while I was up there is the process of Congress, and thank goodness I came on board when Congress takes their recess. You know, not only do you have the committees, you've got subcommittees. I mean all the different legislation that's coming down the pike. And I also realized that I did not have to know all the nuts and bolts of all the bills that they're writing. I could know some talking points, but what I need, if somebody wants to get down in the bushes, I can go get the legislative aide who wrote it and talk to them. So I mean, I'm learning how to use the resources that were there and how people get along with each other. Everybody has to give a little and get a little, so that you know they are all on the same page. It's not a one-way street my way or no way. It does not work that way up there.

Nathan Miller: 10:55

That's right and I think that totally makes sense and I think that's true about anything and you know it's certainly true in my business today. Another thing I tell my team a lot you always want in my business, you always want the other guy to feel like they got the better end of the deal, whether that's a reporter you're working with, whether that's a client, whether that's a client or whether that's a vendor. If you have a zero-sum mentality that you're trying to beat people all the time, it's not going to work out so well. For you.

Nathan Miller: 11:20

And life is really a repeat game that way, and so always thinking about how do I make this person feel good about the interaction they had with me just now, or she had with me just now, and I think that's really important.

Peter Woolfolk: 11:32

Well, you know, here's another thing that I learned too, and this was from a reporter up on up on Capitol Hill said well, if you really want to get something, you know, get the best out of a reporter, give them everything they need right up front. You know they're talking about a piece of legislation here. Here's the high points of the legislation, you know? Here's what he's done. You know, blah, blah, blah all those features. By the way, if you really want to move a little further and interested, I can arrange for you to have a sit-down interview with them, because what I heard, a lot of reporters some of them aren't as aggressive as others and the more you give them, the better off you are and perhaps the more shots that you can have at that particular newspaper or radio or TV access. Absolutely.

Nathan Miller: 12:16

I totally agree. That's really important. Your job is to help the reporter do his job or her job better. That's just it. It's often to protect your client and make sure that they're getting the right kind of coverage and shaping it, but at its core, it's also that.

Peter Woolfolk: 12:31

You know. The other thing I know we talked about before we did the interview is the fact that there's a lot of problem solving that goes on in the job of public relations. How do we make this thing happen? And you know some of the jobs I've had where I had I actually had to learn and I did learn the job. You know how to uplink and downlink satellite programs. I learned that oh wow, and that came in handy when I was asked to produce a program at the Department of Education and make sure that all the you know a lot of the junior colleges around the country could see it. So I had that skill how to do that and where to go and who to talk to and you know that came up, thankfully, very, very well. We have 132 downlink sites around the country. So that you go into these jobs and you learn things that you can apply other places.

Nathan Miller: 13:22

Absolutely. Now, every day, most of my day, is spent solving problems at this point. You know we've got 20 folks on my team who are also solving problems, but you know the little problems get solved and the bigger problems get pushed up the chain. So you get the bigger problems usually and you know whether that problem is an upset client or a story that didn't go well, or a story we're trying to get placed, or a client that's in a bind or a complicated matter you're trying to sort through, or the problems of running a business. You know that's that's another thing that when I started my company I was 28 years old and I didn't know the first thing about running a business.

Nathan Miller: 14:04

I couldn't spell QuickBooks, and you know I had and it was all on-the-job training and thankfully I started at a young enough age where I wasn't married yet, I didn't have kids, I didn't have a mortgage. Some of those pressures were off. So I had the space over years to learn these things, mostly the hard ones. But there's no better educator than that. And so, yeah, I mean every day I'm saw. You know, I think if you haven't run a business, small business, on your own, it's sometimes hard to understand just the amount of problems that get created every day. And to be successful you have to really be level, I think.

Nathan Miller: 14:42

I don't know how you do this. If you don't have, if you can't create sort of a sense of calmness and coolness and you know focus every single day Because you make a mistake here or there, you use your cool. Here or there, you make a decision based on emotional response and you can be paying for that for a long time. So that's another thing. I think running a business has taught me how to just stay really centered and focused and constructive on solving problems. My wife and I were joking about this the other day. We have three little kids. She runs her own business too and we were talking about how running a business, managing a team, makes you a better parent. I'm confident in that. It's a lot of that skill set about how running a business, managing a team, makes you a better parent. I'm confident in that. It's a lot of that skill set, the patience and the calmness and the steadiness there's a lot of applicable skills that go back and forth.

Peter Woolfolk: 15:35

Well, you know, since we're sort of exchanging sort of war stories here, because having worked in politics several other things I think I mentioned I ran the communications for Bill Clinton up in Delaware in his second campaign and one of the things that happens is that obviously you want somebody from the administration to show up and cheer you on. So we had both the first lady at one time and another time the vice president come on and working with the Secret Service. Perhaps it was an experience I've never had before, because I never realized how much detail they want to know about everything. You know, what streets are you coming up Bridge, how tall is the bridge? Doors are coming and streets are coming down, who are the people who are going to be there, how many, all those kinds of things.

Peter Woolfolk: 16:19

So I picked that up and it stayed with me, because I've also seen times when details were left out and then the wheels came off of a program because nobody thought of it, um, or that everybody who's involved in a program needs to be at the table when a decision is being made. Yep, you know, don't do this thing about. Okay, let's do it this way, and then, okay, you go, go and give this part to John and tell him this is what he's got to do.

Nathan Miller: 16:45

Absolutely the details matter. I'll tell you a story, if that's okay. It's funny. There's a speech I wrote one time. I wrote 55 drafts, five-s, five, five over the course of a year. It was a big speech we had to give. It was.

Nathan Miller: 17:07

It was uh, the my, my boss was giving Israel's response to the Palestinian UN state had been in 2011, 12, 2012 and I worked on a speech for a year and everyone in a diplomatic office you know it's sort of like everybody wants their stamp on the big speeches. So the legal advisor, the political advisor, the guy in town from you know, from Jerusalem, the, you know, the outside consultant, everybody, everybody had a different take on what this speech needed to be and every time they gave a different take. The ambassador said why don't you go try a draft like that, see how it feels? So we got up to 55 drafts the night before the speech and um, and we're, we're, we're in the office. And I ended up, uh, I was almost at that point, totally broken. I said to the chief of staff at the time. I said I'm not writing another draft to this speech, and Israelis can be tough. And she just looks at me and it was like 3 am, we're in the office. She said stop crying like a baby. And we ended up getting the speech. We sent it in to headquarters Usually they would look at stuff and headquarters came back and didn't like our final draft so they rewrote it themselves and I remember the ambassador was really. He said this is not acceptable.

Nathan Miller: 18:25

So we ended up getting on the phone with some other leaders at the time and I had to write this speech in 30 minutes from scratch again for the 56th time, an hour before he gave it to the world. And I remember there was no margin for error. Right, I had to. You know they were dictating it In the middle of me writing it.

Nathan Miller: 18:46

I was sitting in his office and there was like 40 diplomats sitting in that office all watching me and I'm typing the speech up and all of a sudden the computer breaks. His computer starts flashing. So I'm writing the speech out longhand and I've got some other computer and it's like a mess. He leaves and goes to the UN and I have about 20 minutes to take all my different chicken scratches and notes and everything else, put it together into a format. He never even read it or reviewed it, printed it out, sprinted over to the UN and gave it to him just before he walked up on that stage. But I knew it took two years of training to be able to do that, to have the confidence in myself to be able to deliver in such a high-pressure environment, to get all the details right and we were successful in the end. But I hear you, I think it's a lot of the best experiences that are most challenging like that.

Peter Woolfolk: 19:36

And you know it also depends upon who you're working with too, because when I was working with the Assistant Secretary of Education, she didn't want speeches over 12 minutes. She said I can say everything I need to say after that and if people want more, you just ask me some questions. And one congressman he said well, look, just write bullet points for me, because I've got things I want to say that you don't know anything about. So you know, just write the bullet points, remind me. So you've got to understand how people want things to done. So that's absolutely so that you can get it done, done right.

Peter Woolfolk: 20:10

And the other thing about that, that also is dealing with people. You know, just because you have a superior position doesn't mean that you can overrule I shouldn't say overrule them, but but handle them any way you want to, because some of these people have some of the things that you need, and if they knowingly give you something that's wrong and you show up with it wrong, you're embarrassed, they can screw you. So you've got to make sure that you are. And there's a difference between a manager and being a boss. There's a difference and people need to learn what that is, because you go along to get along and things work out a lot better for you.

Nathan Miller: 20:46

Exactly, that's exactly the case, and you know, I watch it in my own office over my years. Social dynamics, everything especially when you're working in a high-pressure environment with a lot of smart people, You've got to be able to figure out how to bring people with you and not turn them off. That's a real skill in itself.

Peter Woolfolk: 21:04

Well, you know, add to that too, is that you know people need to learn to work together, because, having worked in that office and I was in the government and it's still going on today out here but people are still working in their silos, you know, they do their own little things in their own little areas and they don't share that information. And somebody needs to recognize that and get in there and let's tear these laws down, because there's a lot of duplication of effort going on in some places and that's a waste of both time and money that people need to get their hands around.

Nathan Miller: 21:35

That's absolutely right. I've been in a lot of different environments with clients or you know whatever, where you see, where you see that and healthy organizations figure out how to move it out and get people working in an efficient way. Absolutely.

Peter Woolfolk: 21:49

You know the other thing that I suggest I've become. From time to time I do lecture at some of the college PR or PR SSA classes and I try to tell the students, you know, get as much experience as you can, because a lot of times you just never know when it's going to come in handy for you, yep, and help you solve some problems. You know, having been in radio for a while, I remember having a congressman down in Brazil some years ago and he was down there with the president at some environmental conference. So I'm just wondering, wondering, how am I going to get him some media coverage? Because you know the media down there they want to talk to the heads of state, not the congressional delegation.

Peter Woolfolk: 22:33

So I called several radio stations in New York and asked them what are they going to do about covering that conference? They said, well, I guess they call it rip and read, just pull a copy off the APY and read it. Well, I asked him, would you be interested in talking to the congressman directly from them? They said, oh, absolutely. So I had to figure out a way to basically have his aide to call me at the office and I would transfer the call up there, and that worked so well. I him doing three interviews from Brazil with New York radio stations.

Nathan Miller: 23:04

That's amazing, but that's it you got to be. This business is all about thinking quickly on your feet, pivoting when you need to. When one door is closed in front of you, you kind of look around you see where another one's open. I want to go back to something you said before about young people. Here's something I say a lot. Your title is a lot less important than your skills.

Announcer: 23:30

A lot of young people coming out today.

Nathan Miller: 23:31

You know they're focused a lot on what's their title going to be or how prestigious an organization are they working for. I think your first five years in professional life is, you know, the most important thing is what skills are you building that are going to be invaluable for you in the future? Meaning being able to write, you know, in a way that's clear, concise and compelling? Or developing deep subject matter expertise in an area that's going to be really valuable, where you will be an expert, and I think there's not enough folks who are taught that out of school, you know they just sort of think it's a generic thing.

Nathan Miller: 24:00

The key is how can you begin to really start to specialize and start to build those skills that will be useful for you moving forward in any job that you take, but particularly the job that you're focused on. I'm shocked by it. We have a writing test at our firm that folks have to take and 90-plus percent of people fail that test. And it's not that hard. I have to take and 90 plus percent of people fail that test and it's not that hard, I have to say. But if you can build those hard skills, you're very employable, and I think that that's something we tell all our interns, something I tell all the folks that I speak to when I go to speak in universities, and things like that.

Peter Woolfolk: 24:37

I agree with him. Let me add to that I like to have run across kids who have that go-get-em attitude. I don't know, but if you let me work with you so I can learn it, I'll be glad to help you. I did not see too many of those you said. Most of them want a high-paying job with a nice title, but they don't have the skills to go along with it.

Nathan Miller: 24:58

That's exactly it. That's exactly it. You know we have learned. It's funny.

Nathan Miller: 25:03

I look for certain things when we're recruiting. I'll tell you what. There are interesting kind of proxies for that attitude. People who are athletes often have those, those core skills of resilience and grit and determination, or folks who who had a job in a different field that was challenging, whether they were waiting tables or they were.

Nathan Miller: 25:22

You know, we look a lot for grit and resilience because it's hard when you first started my business and in the PR business there's a there's a learning curve. Even if you've been at a great school with a great public relations program, when you're in that seat there's going to be a period of intense learning and it's going to be uncomfortable for you, at least in my firm, because we do high-level work and we have high expectations for our team. So a core question is how resilient is that person going to be and are they going to be able to dig deep and be excited to grow and learn? And usually if somebody has demonstrated that at another time in their life, it's a good indicator they'll be able to do it once they're sitting in that chair as an associated entrepreneur.

Peter Woolfolk: 26:05

Well, the other thing I think that I've talked to some professors about, that, some of the students are missing is being able to speak on your feet, public speaking. He said a lot of them just don't have that skill because they spend too much time on their telephones and they don't communicate with each other. And you know, being in public relations, if you can't talk to somebody, you've got a huge problem on your hands, there's no question about it.

Nathan Miller: 26:29

That's absolutely true. We call that executive prep and we rank people on that. We help people work on it. It's a lost skill, just like I see right in, the people who are able to speak on their feet and be compelling are hugely. They're at a huge advantage.

Peter Woolfolk: 26:45

Well, you know, one of the things that I'm glad we had a chance to cover a lot of these issues and I'm glad the topics that we did cover, because my audience falls into the Gen Z, millennial category and age range, so that's basically, and a lot of them I'm sure will probably appreciate some of the things that we've mentioned here today.

Nathan Miller: 27:05

Yeah, well, I hope so. You know, we have a lot of interns and young associates from that age category and I think there's it's like anything you know there's really great Gen Z millennials who have all those like, who want to work hard. It's just a question of finding them and, you know, and engaging those who really embrace those values at this moment. And I think that there's a huge amount of opportunity in our field for those who can both understand of a changing media environment Everybody is a publisher today. It's demonstrated by our conversation and the traditional media is changing dramatically. There's fewer outlets, there's more small outlets and obviously, social media and digital strategy. So if you can understand all the nuances of that changing environment but also have those core skills writing, critical thinking, listening, public speaking, those people skills that you were talking about I think, if you're a well-rounded professional in that sense, there's a huge amount of opportunity right now. It's exciting, changing and growing field. That's my view.

Peter Woolfolk: 28:08

Well, I'm going to say that was well said and well spoken and I'm sure my listeners will certainly appreciate that. We've Well said and well spoken and I'm sure my listeners will certainly appreciate that. You know we've covered a lot here today, nathan. I'm just wondering is there anything else that you think that our audience should know?

Nathan Miller: 28:21

I'll say one other concept that I talk a lot about in our company and I'll leave it with this. It's the concept of compounding, and you know they talk about compounding interest, right.

Nathan Miller: 28:30

You put some money in the bank you get a dollar one year and then the next year you get interest on your principal and interest on your interest. And I think our business, and business in general and life in general, is a compounding phenomenon, meaning they're compounding phenomenon, meaning you do one good thing in our field. You know, if it's a media program, you start to build visibility and you build a relationship with one reporter that leads to a relationship with another, and more and more and more. And the same thing is true about your career. Every step you take matters. It's either going to be compounding in a positive way, meaning getting you building you more skills, more networks, or it'll be compounding in a negative way, creating problems that you have to clean up later.

Nathan Miller: 29:11

And everybody makes mistakes, and that happens. But if you think about the decisions you make in your career, ideally you want to have every interaction be compounded in a positive direction. And that's, I think, something I've tried to consider as I've built my firm and I think it's served me really well. It leads to good, leads to good. So that's what I'll leave you all with today.

Peter Woolfolk: 29:33

Okay, well, I want to say thank you to Nathan Miller. He is the founder of Miller Inc. A public relations firm located there in Los Angeles, california, and I also want to thank you, my listeners, for joining us on this, and I certainly hope that we've transmitted some information to you that not only you can use in everyday life, but also in the public relations arena. So, if you've enjoyed the show, we certainly would like to get a good review from you and also share this information with some of your colleagues. And don't forget to listen to the next edition of the Public Relations Review Podcast.

Announcer: 30:08

This podcast is produced by Communication Strategies, an award-winning public relations and public affairs firm headquartered in Nashville, Tennessee. Thank you for joining us.